QB Prospects Post Combine

[Wildflecken]

Those who viewed my pre combine thread know my thoughts on what I call the "pajama wars" and since I posted that thread the term "underwear Olympics" has been written about nationally. Teams that draft well evaluate football players and how they play football, not how they perform here. I am not saying the combine is useless as it is not. Teams get face time and they also get to see them doing football drills. However, I remember some wanting to drop Schreff after last combine due to his bench press results, ludicrous, and what happened, Schreff actually rose in draft going what 5 overall. So there is the answer for those who overvalue what occurs at the combine. Those who know what is required to sit down on a bull rush know what I am talking about here, certainly do not want someone who is all arm/chest strength doing this on game day. Ok so with my rant out of the way, here is what I saw regarding the qb position, post combine. For one my view has not changed, this class is special and Rams absolutely need to draft a qb this class. Have not seen a class this deep in a very, very long time. Five years from now they will be talking about the 2016 qb class, that much I am certain.

Paxton Lynch - Teams seeking a mobile qb should have Lynch number one on their board. For Rams I will say this, adding Lynch to an offense with Gurley in the backfield is an interesting proposition. And I love the touch he puts on his throw, very catchable ball thrown by Lynch. The more tape I see on Lynch the more and more I am impressed. If Rams are considering moving up in draft for a qb, Lynch is the only prospect I feel may be worth the draft capitol surrendered. Rare, unique talent. If he is somehow on board at 15, I think it is a no brainer.

Wentz - Nothing here has changed, prospects do not drop due to combine unless something alarming would occur. Nothing did, at least that has been released publically. For me Lynch rose due to intangibles. Just have never seen a prospect with Lynch's profile. Can envision Lynch winning a game with arm, legs or head.

Cook - If you are looking for a pocket passer with pro style experience Cook is it. Can make all the throws and has experience doing it.

Hackenberg - Had not seen a lot of tape pre combine. Have now, especially his rookie season. A steal in round 2 but you will have to pull trigger before Texans select. On OBriens radar. If you are looking for a pure pocket passer its close between him and Cook. Size of Hackenberg maybe gives him the edge here along with potential upside?

Coker - As I have posted this class is deep, another potential future franchise qb. Smart, great game manager. The type of prospect who makes me believe Rams should follow philosophy they have used at other positional units and select two qb prospects this draft, after all Snead has stated they want a true competition in camp at the position. Well if Rams take two prospects this class come 2017 they will have a true qb completion and a tough decision to make naming a starter. With the wr class being so disappointing this year I have zero issues with Rams using multiple picks at the most coveted of positions. For if they do, they should be set at the position for years to come and will have found the long eluded franchise qb

[poplarbluffman]

had Hackenberg as a 5th rd pick..moved him up a little now will move him back to that 5th rd spot...hate his personality for a QB and his erratic arm

Coker might end being the highest drafted player without a combine invite thought Wentz looked sensational at the combine and now likely the 1st overall pick...

[Wildflecken]

had Hackenberg as a 5th rd pick..moved him up a little now will move him back to that 5th rd spot...hate his personality for a QB and his erratic arm

Coker might end being the highest drafted player without a combine invite thought Wentz looked sensational at the combine and now likely the 1st overall pick...

I will say it is close between Wentz and Lynch. Had Wentz one pre combine and did nothing there to drop him as stated. For me its the intangibles with Lynch and probably swayed some by todays NFL. The wr's (even those considered the top ones in today's NFL) just do not run routes as they once did (Patriot receivers excluded here). Just don't see the precision it once had (of course maybe seeing too many Rams games have led to this opinion)
And why I feel a unique talent like Lynch could be more valuable at least to Rams moving forward.

On Hack, see a lot of upside. Has a great touch but as you state can be erratic. Can and has been outgrown before, very young still. Not a day one starter but don't think the high comparisons made rookie year are too far off here. And compared to recent classes well this class is deep. Have no issues with Rams going Lynch/Hack or Lynch/Coker. Hack I think Texans tab in round 2, why I think if you like him you have to jump early. Would not be the first time a prospect threw erratic to stay under radar and go to desired location.

[poplarbluffman]

Nothing on Goff?

Enjoyed your post, Im seeing what you are as well.

I have Goff #1 overall in this draft...

[lynyrdsghost]

Gotta agree with poplarbluffman about Hackenberg. I see him as a 4th rounder at best although it wouldn't shock me if the Texans HC takes him much earlier. A decision I think he'll regret later on. Like Coker a lot more but that may be because I'm a Bama fan. Still not thrilled with Cook but I do believe he has starting potential. Just hoping the Rams don't roll the dice with him. Most people don't like him but Cardale Jones is the guy I'd like to see the Rams gamble on, if they take a QB after the 1st round (highly unlikely IMO). Still think Goff will be the best QB from this class with Wentz coming in 2nd but I think the Browns will probably take Wentz over Goff. JMO.

[NN1Badboy]

Ok, so here's the big question. If the Rams have seen enough to make them believe any one of these 3 can be a franchise QB, what would it cost them? We are still a team with many needs, and I really can't see giving up a bunch of draft picks. Besides QB, we need a WR, TE, OLB, FS, C, DE, and now likely a CB. That's 8 players. We only have 6 picks this year. I think our best option is to wait. If one of those guys fall to us and we feel he is a franchise guy, then maybe we take him. If not, take the top available guy at a position of need. Give Keenum something to throw to, and wait another year for a franchise signal caller. Maybe even Mannion will develop into a starter this year.

[lynyrdsghost]

Ok, so here's the big question. If the Rams have seen enough to make them believe any one of these 3 can be a franchise QB, what would it cost them? We are still a team with many needs, and I really can't see giving up a bunch of draft picks. Besides QB, we need a WR, TE, OLB, FS, C, DE, and now likely a CB. That's 8 players. We only have 6 picks this year. I think our best option is to wait. If one of those guys fall to us and we feel he is a franchise guy, then maybe we take him. If not, take the top available guy at a position of need. Give Keenum something to throw to, and wait another year for a franchise signal caller. Maybe even Mannion will develop into a starter this year.

Rams might be able to move up to #6 but it would cost at least their #1, a #2 and either a pick in 2017 and/or a player like Tre Mason. Kinda doubt the Ravens would move back but it's possible. Personally, I don't think Fisher will even take a QB in this draft unless Stan pressures him to do it. Not liking the FA options either. I could see Fisher trading for a QB if a guy he likes comes into play but that probably won't happen. JMO but I think Fisher will disappoint a lot of fans here by drafting a DT and a CB with two of their first three picks. Pretty good year for both IMO and with them probably losing JJ and Fairley, it could happen. Might get 1st round value on day two. If they lose Barron or if the whole Ogletree to MLB is smoke, I could even see them drafting a LB as well. Using his first three picks on Defense would piss off a lot of people but Fisher loves a strong D and might just decide to keep it strong.

[Wildflecken]

1.) Rams going defense at 15 would not be a huge surprise. Think Sneads comments regarding studies on number of qb's starting around league coming from round 2 and 3 of draft were genuine, versus smoke. Snead has always viewed the extra selections as picks you can take a flyer on a boom/bust prospect like a qb. Would not be schocked if Rams used extra 2 on the qb position, however depending on how draft falls they could of course use the first of the seconds on a qb etc..

2. Expect Rams to use FA to fill some short term needs this offseason. Retaining own will be priority one, but have plenty of cap to do both. Have to wonder if Rams have created a large chunk of cap for a qb via trade? We will find out shortly.

3.) As stated I like Coker a lot, but think Hack is a little higher on boards than 5th round. Under constant pressure last two seasons at Penn State. And they won more than they should of being undermanned due to sanctions. Hack has had contact I can ensure you and not uncommon for qb's to want to go to a team/coach that is a good fit/situation for them. Think this is a perfect example of overweighting combine. Hack has a sound understanding of pro concepts, to the extent he could be actually ahead of all the qb's this class with the possible exception of Conner Cook, However concerning foot work, Cook is the hands down winner.

[NN1Badboy]

Rams might be able to move up to #6 but it would cost at least their #1, a #2 and either a pick in 2017 and/or a player like Tre Mason. Kinda doubt the Ravens would move back but it's possible. Personally, I don't think Fisher will even take a QB in this draft unless Stan pressures him to do it. Not liking the FA options either. I could see Fisher trading for a QB if a guy he likes comes into play but that probably won't happen. JMO but I think Fisher will disappoint a lot of fans here by drafting a DT and a CB with two of their first three picks. Pretty good year for both IMO and with them probably losing JJ and Fairley, it could happen. Might get 1st round value on day two. If they lose Barron or if the whole Ogletree to MLB is smoke, I could even see them drafting a LB as well. Using his first three picks on Defense would piss off a lot of people but Fisher loves a strong D and might just decide to keep it strong.

I could definitely see this happening. And I would be one of those pissed off fans. I love our defense, and know that we still need a couple of players, but how many years are we going to wait to find a #1 receiver and a good TE? I hate that our defensive priorities always seem to outweigh our offensive priorities. Now, I do understand that this may be a better draft for the defense than it is for the offense, but we have to start finding a way to put points on the board or we will continue to be in the annual losers bracket. I think last year our magic number was 24. Didn't we win every game that we scored at least 24 points? Now imagine if we could put 30 points on the board per game.

[Wildflecken]

For the Conner Cook detractors, reports indicate Cook was dealing with a shoulder issue last season (ac separation I do believe) which of course fully explains his absence from Senior Bowl. Many also looking forward to his pro day as they expect his velocity may actually exceed this years combine winner in that category, Paxton Lynch. Then go to the game tape, his experience in a pro set at college level and the results of that experience. Also can explain the captain controversy as well, with Cook needing treatment throughout week

[Ants]

For the Conner Cook detractors, reports indicate Cook was dealing with a shoulder issue last season (ac separation I do believe) which of course fully explains his absence from Senior Bowl. Many also looking forward to his pro day as they expect his velocity may actually exceed this years combine winner in that category, Paxton Lynch. Then go to the game tape, his experience in a pro set at college level and the results of that experience. Also can explain the captain controversy as well, with Cook needing treatment throughout week

I've mentioned it before regarding Cooks shoulder. Nobody seems to care about facts, though.

[Wildflecken]

For the Conner Cook detractors, reports indicate Cook was dealing with a shoulder issue last season (ac separation I do believe) which of course fully explains his absence from Senior Bowl. Many also looking forward to his pro day as they expect his velocity may actually exceed this years combine winner in that category, Paxton Lynch. Then go to the game tape, his experience in a pro set at college level and the results of that experience. Also can explain the captain controversy as well, with Cook needing treatment throughout week

I've mentioned it before regarding Cooks shoulder. Nobody seems to care about facts, though.

Apologies Ants, missed your post regarding this. Know this, Rams have scouted Cook heavily and Sneads comments about his studies on starting qb's around league coming from rounds 2 and 3 of draft could very well be genuine, versus smoke. Personally hope they have scouted Lynch just as heavily. My take on Lynch, if he had the pro set experience at college level similar to Winston, all would be discussing Lynch in same category. I have him higher than MM last draft and hope Rams do as well. Snead does place a very high value on number of snaps in pro set at college level.

[majik]

For the Conner Cook detractors, reports indicate Cook was dealing with a shoulder issue last season (ac separation I do believe) which of course fully explains his absence from Senior Bowl. Many also looking forward to his pro day as they expect his velocity may actually exceed this years combine winner in that category, Paxton Lynch. Then go to the game tape, his experience in a pro set at college level and the results of that experience. Also can explain the captain controversy as well, with Cook needing treatment throughout week

I think Connor Cook's detractors regarding the team captaincy thing are a bit more deeper than the injury issue. His overall personality and way he conducts himself have been mentioned by numerous sources. At the Johnny Manziel debacle, teams are going to look at these characteristics regarding QBs a bit more closely. Ryan Leaf anyone?

[Wildflecken]

For the Conner Cook detractors, reports indicate Cook was dealing with a shoulder issue last season (ac separation I do believe) which of course fully explains his absence from Senior Bowl. Many also looking forward to his pro day as they expect his velocity may actually exceed this years combine winner in that category, Paxton Lynch. Then go to the game tape, his experience in a pro set at college level and the results of that experience. Also can explain the captain controversy as well, with Cook needing treatment throughout week

I think Connor Cook's detractors regarding the team captaincy thing are a bit more deeper than the injury issue. His overall personality and way he conducts himself have been mentioned by numerous sources. At the Johnny Manziel debacle, teams are going to look at these characteristics regarding QBs a bit more closely. Ryan Leaf anyone?

That is a more than legitimate concern and an aspect I assume I had not fully considered, the Leaf comment you made struck that nerve as I do not see a Johnny Football scenario with Cook, but as with Leaf more of a loner, keeping people at a distant so they could not see past the professional appearance he displayed (prior to national outbursts of course) in college/interviews etc.. And with the indicators unique in each and every scenario,hmm. Just don't like the attachment placed on prospects without some evidence attached, teams will need to dig deep and do due diligence and even doing so could lead to a swing and miss outcome?

However the mere fact he was not named a captain could also be as easily explained as a coach who preferred to emphasize the team aspect of the game, wanting to win a national championship in manner Seahawks won Super Bowl, with a total 53 man effort? And Cook accepting this role and excelling in it could actually be plus for a team like Rams and a coach like Fisher, who places a high value on each and every position, to include the importance of the practice squad. It is about the team, not the individual.

[RamFanFor55]

Ok, so here's the big question. If the Rams have seen enough to make them believe any one of these 3 can be a franchise QB, what would it cost them? We are still a team with many needs, and I really can't see giving up a bunch of draft picks. Besides QB, we need a WR, TE, OLB, FS, C, DE, and now likely a CB. That's 8 players. We only have 6 picks this year. I think our best option is to wait. If one of those guys fall to us and we feel he is a franchise guy, then maybe we take him. If not, take the top available guy at a position of need. Give Keenum something to throw to, and wait another year for a franchise signal caller. Maybe even Mannion will develop into a starter this year.

If the mocks, and the boards, are to be believed, it shouldn't cost anything to take Lynch at 15.

But that's really not--absolutely not--a "no-brainer." Badboy is spot on. Too many needs, probably 8--or more if there's no starting WR brought in in FA. And really only five draft choices, with no 5th and 6th rounders rarely bringing much. The 15 pick is valuable, and I'd argue that "trying Tree out" at MLB is risky, and doubly, it creates a real lack of depth at OLB. I'm liking Ragland at 15, if he's there, and go WR and TE in the 2nd, FS or C in the 3rd.

Give Keenum a chance, with an improving OL and decent receivers to throw to. He's mobile and a leader, and threw dimes at Houston--no reason he can't do it again.

The real issue is what to do with Foles, who will ride a very expensive slot on the bench.

[Rampager66]

Give Keenum a chance, with an improving OL and decent receivers to throw to. He's mobile and a leader, and threw dimes at Houston--no reason he can't do it again.

The real issue is what to do with Foles, who will ride a very expensive slot on the bench.

No way in hell Case Keenum has proven he can lead in this league. Where, what and why do you get that impression from? Big difference going against punching bag state U's like North Texas, Rice, UAB, Georgia State etc and then the big boys on NFL defenses.
There's a reason the guy is the all time NCAA passing yards leader by a lot yet nobody drafted him.