Colin on Goff - Stafford

[GlendoraRam]

Interesting

[ocram23]

Colin isn't wrong. First impressions matter.

The media convinced everyone that Goff was a bust and his white kid from California persona made him not likeable. The Rams "messed" up by not taking "Wentz" the rugged white guy who played in the midwest. Ever since many Rams fans and media types never gave him a fair shot.

It's all ego. Nobody likes admitting they are wrong so Goff will go down as one of the most underrated players in NFL history. We live in a era where style is respected more than production. Goff is a Drew Brees level QB. Definitely good enough to win a ring. Does he? Lots of factors play into that.

I had no issues with the Rams getting rid of Goff. Both sides underperformed. Goff has a perfect situation now and I am happy for him....But I am not going to fault the Rams for making the move

[ocram23]

I had no issues with the Rams getting rid of Goff. Both sides underperformed. Goff has a perfect situation now and I am happy for him....But I am not going to fault the Rams for making the move

I'm not faulting them either. I said at the time Stafford was the better QB who gave them a better chance at winning immediately.

But doesn't negate the fact Goff wasn’t given the time to develop. The Rams could have also had 2 1st, more cap space and a QB who was going to enter his prime.

Also, Goff is in his 3rd rebuild....CAL, LA and DET. The whole "perfect" spot narrative is sorta BS at this point. New OC and reshuffled oline and they are still pacing 2nd most points of all time. The constant is Goff.

Detroit was in rebuild in yr 1 not anymore. they have been very good for 3 yrs

[ocram23]

Detroit was in rebuild in yr 1 not anymore. they have been very good for 3 yrs

Yup because of Goff.

Everyone already forgets in 2022 they were a top 5 scoring offense with Swift and Williams at RB. Guess who was the #2 receiver? Kalif freaking Raymond.

I mean Jamal Williams with Goff in 2022 (17) TDs. Next year without Goff (1) TD.

Guess how many top 5 scoring offenses McVay has without Goff? Zero!

Guess how many with Goff? 2!

Guess how many top 5 offenses Stafford has? Zero!

Guess how many Goff has? 6!

Goff has been part of 6 top 5 scoring teams while Stafford has never done it.

The more you you dig into this stuff, the more gross it gets.

I'll gladly admit I love that we won a ring with Matt. The dude can be a straight assassin. Incredibly fun player! But his style doesn't always put points on the board.

Brad Holmes hit a HR with damn near every pick for 3 drafts and it is not solely because of Goff. Gibbs, St Brown, Williams, LaPorta, Hutchinson, Sewell, Campbell, Arnold....these guys just crushed the draft and add that with great coaching and good QB play they have become very good.....team game

[therealheadslap75]

if the Rams didn't pay too much for Stafford, I would say it was the perfect trade for both teams.


I was very critical of Goff in his last two years as a ram because he was incredibly inaccurate on a deep ball

His first two years with Detroit he was check down Charlie

It took him a while to develop, Todd Gurley covered up a lot of his deficiencies in 2017 and 2018

We had a much shorter window than Detroit, with AD99 as our best player, Whitworths age, Woods etc

Other than last year, the Rams have been plagued by injuries much more than Detroit

Stafford is a Hall of Famer, Goff has a very good shot but he still has to win some big games

[DelMar]

Is good as Goff is, imo, Campbell will prevent him from ever winning a chip.

[Henry VIII]

The Rams biggest loss in all of this QB back and forth was not keep Brad Holmes under our umbrella somehow!..With Snead and Dumoff in his way. His path was essential blocked. So Detroit definitely won the battle of key personnel being employed. I don't know where he would or could have fit..but if we had kept Brad as GM or VP and Tony stay where he's at. I'm pretty sure my feelings wouldn't have gotten hurt if Kroenke replaced either Snead or especially Dumoff with Holmes. The dude knows football and has an eye for talent.

[Claremontram]

Stafford delivered a Super Bowl, Goff has not. Case closed.

[brasilrams]

Goff has been better than Stafford? Maybe. Still, one delivered a Super Bowl — the other didn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Goff has had a much better O-line protecting him than Stafford had in the last three years. The Rams fail year after year to put together a top-5 O-line. Havenstein is old and always hurt, Avila is made of glass and kind of soft, our center is either Limmer or Shelton (both terrible). Alaric is decent and Dotson is good. That’s it. This O-line (yet again) is subpar.

They don’t f*** around with the O-line in Detroit — they know that since Goff is a pocket passer, he needs a top-tier line, and that’s exactly what Detroit has given him year after year.

[Henry VIII]

The Rams biggest loss in all of this QB back and forth was not keep Brad Holmes under our umbrella somehow!..With Snead and Dumoff in his way. His path was essential blocked. So Detroit definitely won the battle of key personnel being employed. I don't know where he would or could have fit..but if we had kept Brad as GM or VP and Tony stay where he's at. I'm pretty sure my feelings wouldn't have gotten hurt if Kroenke replaced either Snead or especially Dumoff with Holmes. The dude knows football and has an eye for talent.

Lots of that had to do with the trade getting extra picks and Goff signing team friendly deals. The Lions 2024 draft is looking like a disaster. I feel like Brad hasn't done particularly well the last couple years. But overall he has done a phenomenal job turning that team around.

Draft picks yes..team friendly contract..no way Jose! 4 years at 53 per and 170 million guaranteed! with 212 million in total..doesn't seem overwhelming team friendly to me. Detroit restructured Goff's contract when he first arrived..but that was it nothing after that was team friendly in anyway..And to say Goff signed any team friendly contract deals like Brady did through the years is pure nonsense..Detroit's 2024 draft was widely considered successful, with the Lions receiving good grades for addressing their biggest need at cornerback by selecting Terrion Arnold and Ennis Rakestraw Jr.. While the team made a trade up for Arnold and a risky fourth-round pick of Giovanni Manu, the overall consensus is that they had a strong draft. Some injuries have put a damper on results. Maybe not immediate results but still a positive future.

[Henry VIII]

Draft picks yes..team friendly contract..no way Jose! 4 years at 53 per and 170 million guaranteed! with 212 million in total..doesn't seem overwhelming team friendly to me. Detroit restructured Goff's contract when he first arrived..but that was it nothing after that was team friendly in anyway..And to say Goff signed any team friendly contract deals like Brady did through the years is pure nonsense..Detroit's 2024 draft was widely considered successful, with the Lions receiving good grades for addressing their biggest need at cornerback by selecting Terrion Arnold and Ennis Rakestraw Jr.. While the team made a trade up for Arnold and a risky fourth-round pick of Giovanni Manu, the overall consensus is that they had a strong draft. Some injuries have put a damper on results. Maybe not immediate results but still a positive future.

Ennis Rakestraw has been on IR two years in a row and Arnold was demoted for being one of the worst CBS's in the league.

Do you guys just make stuff up? Like really lol.

Not one player from the 2024 class will be starting tomorrow night.

Maybe we should watch the games before making an opinion on them.

Maybe you should go back to the place where you received your Law degree from and ask them to help you better understand the premise of what a team friendly contract is and I'll watch the game tomorrow..
No, Terrion Arnold was not demoted, but he's not playing tomorrow because of an injury. He suffered a shoulder injury in Week 5..I Don't think an injury is considered a demotion. He played in all 5 of of Lions games this year..he did have early growing pains like a lot of rookies do Mr game watcher. And Terrion might be back this month after a second opinion.

[brasilrams]

Goff has been better than Stafford? Maybe. Still, one delivered a Super Bowl — the other didn’t. Also, I’m pretty sure Goff has had a much better O-line protecting him than Stafford had in the last three years. The Rams fail year after year to put together a top-5 O-line. Havenstein is old and always hurt, Avila is made of glass and kind of soft, our center is either Limmer or Shelton (both terrible). Alaric is decent and Dotson is good. That’s it. This O-line (yet again) is subpar.

They don’t f*** around with the O-line in Detroit — they know that since Goff is a pocket passer, he needs a top-tier line, and that’s exactly what Detroit has given him year after year.

Not this year. They have Glasgow who is worse than Shelton and 2 rookie guards. Outside of Sewell the oline is very average.

Glasgow worse than shelton ? WHAT ?????? Glasglow pass blocking grade is 73.1 by PFF ( 5 out of 49 centers ) , and Shelton pass blocking grade is 44.5 ( 38 out of 49 centers) . Shelton is plain horrible. Run blocking grade is better for Shelton but we are talking QB protection here , right ?

[brasilrams]

Glasgow worse than shelton ? WHAT ?????? Glasglow pass blocking grade is 73.1 by PFF ( 5 out of 49 centers ) , and Shelton pass blocking grade is 44.5 ( 38 out of 49 centers) . Shelton is plain horrible. Run blocking grade is better for Shelton but we are talking QB protection here , right ?

Shelton 65.7
Glasgow 60

Glasgow is the 29th ranked center.
Shelton is the 16th ranked center.

Again, I actually watch the games. That's why I told everyone here Jonah Jackson was a bum. When everyone thought he was good because he played on the Lions. Narratives and facts are two separate things.

No, no, no… you’re using the overall grade for both players, and Shelton has a better overall grade because of his run blocking. I’ll go with the pass-blocking grade and my eye test, because yes — I watch the Lions. You’re not the only one who does.

Shelton is terrible in pass protection — hence his awful score of 44. Glasgow is pretty good in pass protection — hence his 73.

The eye test tells me the same thing: Stafford deals with pressure up the middle all the time, while Goff does not. Sorry but regarding PASS PROTECTION for the QB , Glasgow is not just better but MUCH better than Shelton. Case closed . Don't care about run blocking or overall score , that is not what we are talking about here . Now , we can talk about the rest of the o line and compare them but center ? not a chance. Also , it is not too hard to come up with the stats for the o line rankings for the past 3 years . I wouldn't be surprised if Goff had a top 5 or top 10 o line every year while stafford maybe a bottom 5 , or bottom 10 lol .mcsnead is notorious for neglecting the offensive line.

Goff has become a great player, but every time people compare him to Stafford, the quality of the O-line needs to be a big part of the conversation.

[ocram23]

No, no, no… you’re using the overall grade for both players, and Shelton has a better overall grade because of his run blocking. I’ll go with the pass-blocking grade and my eye test, because yes — I watch the Lions. You’re not the only one who does.

Shelton is terrible in pass protection — hence his awful score of 44. Glasgow is pretty good in pass protection — hence his 73.

The eye test tells me the same thing: Stafford deals with pressure up the middle all the time, while Goff does not. Sorry but regarding PASS PROTECTION for the QB , Glasgow is not just better but MUCH better than Shelton. Case closed . Don't care about run blocking or overall score , that is not what we are talking about here . Now , we can talk about the rest of the o line and compare them but center ? not a chance. Also , it is not too hard to come up with the stats for the o line rankings for the past 3 years . I wouldn't be surprised if Goff had a top 5 or top 10 o line every year while stafford maybe a bottom 5 , or bottom 10 lol .mcsnead is McVay is notorious for neglecting the offensive line.

Goff has become a great player, but every time people compare him to Stafford, the quality of the O-line needs to be a big part of the conversation.

The Rams have invested in the oline just fine. Outside of Center we have average to abve average players and even Shelton isn't terrible.

Tomorrow the Lions will be starting a 3rd string LT and a rookie RG and a first year starter at LG. And I bet they still have a better functioning offense than the Rams.

The irony is its looking more and more like Stafford was the one who needed everything "perfect" not Goff.

totally disagree. the OT situation is a total mess. they should have addressed this either in the draft or FA last yr

[ocram23]

totally disagree. the OT situation is a total mess. they should have addressed this either in the draft or FA last yr

A mess? Jackson is one of the better LT in the league.

As for Hav, the dude is a staple but I agree that his tenure is coming to an end sooner than later.

agree to disagree....Hav is a stiff IMO

[brasilrams]

No, no, no… you’re using the overall grade for both players, and Shelton has a better overall grade because of his run blocking. I’ll go with the pass-blocking grade and my eye test, because yes — I watch the Lions. You’re not the only one who does.

Shelton is terrible in pass protection — hence his awful score of 44. Glasgow is pretty good in pass protection — hence his 73.

The eye test tells me the same thing: Stafford deals with pressure up the middle all the time, while Goff does not. Sorry but regarding PASS PROTECTION for the QB , Glasgow is not just better but MUCH better than Shelton. Case closed . Don't care about run blocking or overall score , that is not what we are talking about here . Now , we can talk about the rest of the o line and compare them but center ? not a chance. Also , it is not too hard to come up with the stats for the o line rankings for the past 3 years . I wouldn't be surprised if Goff had a top 5 or top 10 o line every year while stafford maybe a bottom 5 , or bottom 10 lol .mcsnead is McVay is notorious for neglecting the offensive line.

Goff has become a great player, but every time people compare him to Stafford, the quality of the O-line needs to be a big part of the conversation.

The Rams have invested in the oline just fine. Outside of Center we have average to abve average players and even Shelton isn't terrible.

Tomorrow the Lions will be starting a 3rd string LT and a rookie RG and a first year starter at LG. And I bet they still have a better functioning offense than the Rams.

The irony is its looking more and more like Stafford was the one who needed everything "perfect" not Goff.

They both need a lot of support around them since neither is a mobile QB. In my opinion, the Lions understand that much better than the Rams — they’ve heavily invested in their offensive line and even in the running game. Gibbs is a first-round pick, while all of the Rams’ running backs were drafted in the mid rounds. Last year, the Lions’ running game was so dominant that they won games where Goff threw the ball only about a dozen times. Overall, over the past three years, Detroit’s offensive talent has been much stronger.

They have Gibbs / Montgomery we have fumbling machine KY. They have laporta we have highbee ( lol), they have a better o line ( usually at least)....... Ok we have puka but that is about it and st brown is almost as good as puka. So we have a better wr1 and they have better everything else.

[ramsrule57]

Except winning a Superbowl...................

And until he does he isn't "better" than MS. And I think he is playing at top 5 level right now, still means nothing, not when only 1 team gets to be champ every year and his hasn't been..........yet.

[GlendoraRam]

Except winning a Superbowl...................

And until he does he isn't "better" than MS. And I think he is playing at top 5 level right now, still means nothing, not when only 1 team gets to be champ every year and his hasn't been..........yet.

Great to see you back on the forum!
The ultimate goal is to play and win the very last game of the season. In the end, that’s all that matters.

[brasilrams]

They both need a lot of support around them since neither is a mobile QB. In my opinion, the Lions understand that much better than the Rams — they’ve heavily invested in their offensive line and even in the running game. Gibbs is a first-round pick, while all of the Rams’ running backs were drafted in the mid rounds. Last year, the Lions’ running game was so dominant that they won games where Goff threw the ball only about a dozen times. Overall, over the past three years, Detroit’s offensive talent has been much stronger.

They have Gibbs / Montgomery we have fumbling machine KY. They have laporta we have highbee ( lol), they have a better o line ( usually at least)....... Ok we have puka but that is about it and st brown is almost as good as puka. So we have a better wr1 and they have better everything else.

Like I posted in this thread ealier. The Lions were a top 5 scoring offense with Swift and Williams. And most viewed Montgomery a jag before he played with Goff. So the talent matters. But they've been phenomenal at plug and play and that's due to Goff being arguably the most efficient passer in the league.

But I agree their RB room is better and TE. The Rams have better recievers and depth at that group.

I would say Oline , RB and TEs are better over there . With PUKA and Adams AND all the depth we have at WR ( Wit , Tutu etc ) , our WR room wins the battle .

[brasilrams]

I would say Oline , RB and TEs are better over there . With PUKA and Adams AND all the depth we have at WR ( Wit , Tutu etc ) , our WR room wins the battle .

I'd actually take the Rams oline. Outside of Sewell who is better than our guys? Sewell is phenomenal and I like the rookie Ratledge a lot but he's not better than Dotson right now.

Sewell is 300 times better than Hav, and Glasgow is 300 times better than Shelton at center.

At LT, Alaric is slightly better than Decker (66 vs. 63 pass-blocking grades). At RG, Dotson is definitely better than Tate. And at LG, Avila is better than Mahogany — but Avila is always hurt, so we really have to compare Dedich to Mahogany. And Dedich has a 29 pass-blocking grade (WTF!), so as mediocre as Mahogany is, he’s way better than Dedich.

So, as of now — since Avila has been out since Week 1 — the Lions have 3 players who are better (RT, C, LG), and the Rams have 2 (RG, LT). Once Avila returns, the Rams will have 3 better players.

But we’re talking 2025 here… I’m too lazy to check the last 3 years, but I’d bet the Lions have had the better O-line overall.

[GlendoraRam]

Goff and Stafford are different. Goff excels at short fast releases, Stafford is a gunslinger.

[Henry VIII]

Maybe you should go back to the place where you received your Law degree from and ask them to help you better understand the premise of what a team friendly contract is and I'll watch the game tomorrow..
No, Terrion Arnold was not demoted, but he's not playing tomorrow because of an injury. He suffered a shoulder injury in Week 5..I Don't think an injury is considered a demotion. He played in all 5 of of Lions games this year..he did have early growing pains like a lot of rookies do Mr game watcher. And Terrion might be back this month after a second opinion.

Nope,I watch the games. He was demoted prior to the injury. He is the 133rd ranked CB. Don't be a jerk to me just for stating factual information.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/terrio ... QvncC9Ayok


And yes when your making less money than Purdy, Law,Tua,ect. Your deal is pretty team friendly considering the production.

And no like I said..Goff didn't give the Lions a team friendly discount at all..All the QBs you mentioned as an example signed AFTER Goff put pen to paper..so that's why his deal is slightly less..it stands to reason as it goes in the NFL in regards to contracts the next guy up.. usually always has a bigger contract than the last guy who just signed.

[Truth]

Goff is far better QB than Stafford now and is doing things in Detroit that Stafford was never able to do his entire time there.

If McVay had a better relationship with Goff or trusted him more to run offense (he basically never let Goff audible or do anything on his own) I think he’d have had just as much success in LA.

Some fans tend to overrate a few games in the playoffs to justify the trade , but I don’t. Nick Foles went on a heater to win the Super Bowl. So did Joe Flacco. Eli did it twice. Doesn’t mean they are better QBs than other guys that haven’t won. Stafford winning one season doesn’t mean he’s overall better than Goff.

They both are comfort QBs that need guys around them to be good. But Goff has so many years ahead of him that if you went back, knowing the production Goff had gotten since, I doubt the Rams make the trade. But clearly the relationship between McVay/Goff had simply been destroyed at that point

[AntiGoof]

Goof has been good at marketting himself as the poor little victim Mc Vay wouldn't trust, but the truth is in Detroit he's basically Stat Padford 2.0: great numbers during the regular season because he has a shitton of incredible weapons, but in the playoffs he has choked like a little bitch year after year after year.
He's a good QB, not a great one, he's Kirk Cousins or Matt Ryan.

Let's switch Goff and Stafford once again now, and Staff would probably win a SB ring in his first year back in Detroit, while Goof would be 9/8 - 8/9 in LA.

[Truth]

Goff is far better QB than Stafford now and is doing things in Detroit that Stafford was never able to do his entire time there.

If McVay had a better relationship with Goff or trusted him more to run offense (he basically never let Goff audible or do anything on his own) I think he’d have had just as much success in LA.

Some fans tend to overrate a few games in the playoffs to justify the trade , but I don’t. Nick Foles went on a heater to win the Super Bowl. So did Joe Flacco. Eli did it twice. Doesn’t mean they are better QBs than other guys that haven’t won. Stafford winning one season doesn’t mean he’s overall better than Goff.

They both are comfort QBs that need guys around them to be good. But Goff has so many years ahead of him that if you went back, knowing the production Goff had gotten since, I doubt the Rams make the trade. But clearly the relationship between McVay/Goff had simply been destroyed at that point

Well I'd say Stafford has been better with the Rams and Goff with Detroit. Would I say Goff is "far" better? I wouldn't. Stafford is still a very solid QB. But Goff does currently play more consistently better football. Particularly with his accuracy. There isn't a better thrower of the football in the league right now than Goff.

What I’m saying is that if the Rams knew Goff would put up the numbers in Detroit that he has since trading him, they’d have never done it given what they gave up.

Even if you think Stafford/Goff are equal, one is way younger and the Rams gave up a ton in the trade.

I’m convinced the Rams thought Goff was on the level of say a Kirk Cousins, not a Drew Brees. And the relationship between McVay/Goff was so bad they just decided to try something different. If they knew he’d develop in Detroit to someone much closer to Brees, they’d have ridden with him and kept the 2 firsr rounders

[Cornell29]

Rams getting Stafford was the right move. Rams had to win now. AD and Whit was flirting with retirement. Rams needed to win ASAP. They didnt have another 2 to 3 years waiting for Goff.

By the time Goff is ready, AD and Whit is retired and Kupp is no longer a top wr.

Rams seen the opportunity to win now and took it. Guess what they won a SB.

I would never undo the trade

[Truth]

What I’m saying is that if the Rams knew Goff would put up the numbers in Detroit that he has since trading him, they’d have never done it given what they gave up.

Even if you think Stafford/Goff are equal, one is way younger and the Rams gave up a ton in the trade.

I’m convinced the Rams thought Goff was on the level of say a Kirk Cousins, not a Drew Brees. And the relationship between McVay/Goff was so bad they just decided to try something different. If they knew he’d develop in Detroit to someone much closer to Brees, they’d have ridden with him and kept the 2 firsr rounders

As far as value.....the Lions won the trade. I agree 100% and even though I said Stafford was a better QB at the time. I also said the Rams gave up too much in the trade. Nobody lost the trade, it worked for both sides.

And yes we won a ring with Matt. But it's a team game. Trent Dilfer has won a ring while Marino, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson haven't. So I dont use the ring argument as a justification. The Rams could have sold out when Goff was here. They chose not too. Obviously Stafford was pivotal that year. Dude is one of the most fun QBs to watch. But I can't honestly say he's been the better "QB" at this point. But for 2021 he was the right QB.

But I think the issue is why was Stafford better in 2021? IMO it’s because McVay simply didn’t gel with Goff. He didn’t develop him enough, at least not the way he’s really blossomed in Detroit. I think it goes back to two things:

#1. Goff wasn’t drafted by McVay. McVay inherited him and obviously got more production than Fisher, but maybe he never really believed Goff was a guy to elevate that team and thus never allowed him that responsibility.

#2. In terms of personality, McVay brought in Stafford. And also brought in Baker Mayfield. Two gunslinger type QBs. Maybe that’s the type of guy McVay wants to coach and thus he’d have never gotten what the Lions have gotten out of Goff.

To me the trade is about McVay/Goff relationship. And who knows maybe it was something as petty as the comments Goff made about McVay’s wife if that was true. If the relationship was better, the Rams coiod have won with Goff. It wasn’t. They tried a new guy and had success in 2021 at possible expense of years 2022-2027

[SoCalRam78]

What did Goof do last postseason against a very mid Commanders team at home in playoffs? 4 turnovers. Don’t care anbout defensive injuries. 3 picks annd a fumble. Enough said.

Also Rams never win in 2021 w Goof. Maybe Goof is better today than he was in 2021, Detroit obv talented on offense, but Stafford was huge on that run. Tampa and Niners. Go look at those games.

[SoCalRam78]

Stafford delivered a Super Bowl, Goff has not. Case closed.

Literally the point of trade. Stafford is on bonus time too. Thought he’d be a 3 year guy here.

[ocram23]

What did Goof do last postseason against a very mid Commanders team at home in playoffs? 4 turnovers. Don’t care anbout defensive injuries. 3 picks annd a fumble. Enough said.

Also Rams never win in 2021 w Goof. Maybe Goof is better today than he was in 2021, Detroit obv talented on offense, but Stafford was huge on that run. Tampa and Niners. Go look at those games.

agree he was horrible but you could argue either him or baker are leading the MVP race right now