Shula/ Defense Not Respected Enough!!!

[NorCal RF]

It is a valid point HR. Fact is Rams front 7 has been good all year. Fact is Rams DB’s have done a good job tackling all year………..

But again we are not a good coverage team IMO n I think it is an accurate statement. Agree Detroit was going to be a big challenge and in deed it was. But we have struggled in coverage all year……….

Points against is a big stat. 3rd best is 3rd best. Reminds the perfectionists in here that there is a hell of a lot worse than us………..

[Jacksnow]

It is a valid point HR. Fact is Rams front 7 has been good all year. Fact is Rams DB’s have done a good job tackling all year………..

But again we are not a good coverage team IMO n I think it is an accurate statement. Agree Detroit was going to be a big challenge and in deed it was. But we have struggled in coverage all year……….

Points against is a big stat. 3rd best is 3rd best. Reminds the perfectionists in here that there is a hell of a lot worse than us………..

That's sort of what I'm getting at. I'd love to be the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens or Legion of Boom. Yes, pass defense is suspect. It's even fine to acknowledge such. But as a whole we have a really good D and they should be celebrated more than demonized.

I just made the post because they seem to get more flack than deserved.

Well said HR. The thing that I like about the Rams is that when players make errors or have a weakness they player/coach address it an improve. See Corum/Williams. See Rams D second half Lions game.

[malibu]

To the eye test we have not been as stout on defense in the last month plus.

[brasilrams]

We’re stout against the run — but only when Ford is out there. And since he plays about 90% of the snaps, we’re solid against the run roughly 90% of the time.

Against the pass, though, it’s a completely different story. We’re not even average — we’re just plain bad. And that’s the thing: points per game allowed isn’t the only stat that matters.

A defense that lets the opponent drive up and down the field and can’t get off the field for long stretches keeps its own offense stuck on the bench. Even if you limit them to field goals because you’re strong in the red zone, if you’re allowing 8–9 minute drives to get there, you’re still killing your own offense’s rhythm.

I think it was against Carolina when they held the ball for something like 13–14 minutes in the third quarter. (Okay, that was largely because Ford was on a limited snap count, so they could run the ball — but still.)

As for generating pressure, yes, it matters — but not as much as actually finishing plays with sacks, and we don’t get home enough. We’re ranked #9 in total sacks with 37, while the Broncos lead the league with 58. That’s not bad (top 10), but it’s also not that impressive.

I was expecting much more from Verse and Fiske, especially Verse. The guy has six sacks. Come on , I was expecting a MYles Garret type of season from what he showed us last year . But Garret has 23 sacks and Verse has F" SIX !

[brasilrams]

My only hope for this secondary is that Lake comes back and they improve overall , I don't remember corners and safeties to look so lost and late to the plays when Lake was on the field . If I am not mistaken , he wears the green dot and after he got injured the overall play of the secondary decreased WAY too much.

[brasilrams]

We’re stout against the run — but only when Ford is out there. And since he plays about 90% of the snaps, we’re solid against the run roughly 90% of the time.

Against the pass, though, it’s a completely different story. We’re not even average — we’re just plain bad. And that’s the thing: points per game allowed isn’t the only stat that matters.

A defense that lets the opponent drive up and down the field and can’t get off the field for long stretches keeps its own offense stuck on the bench. Even if you limit them to field goals because you’re strong in the red zone, if you’re allowing 8–9 minute drives to get there, you’re still killing your own offense’s rhythm.

I think it was against Carolina when they held the ball for something like 13–14 minutes in the third quarter. (Okay, that was largely because Ford was on a limited snap count, so they could run the ball — but still.)

As for generating pressure, yes, it matters — but not as much as actually finishing plays with sacks, and we don’t get home enough. We’re ranked #9 in total sacks with 37, while the Broncos lead the league with 58. That’s not bad (top 10), but it’s also not that impressive.

I was expecting much more from Verse and Fiske, especially Verse. The guy has six sacks. Come on , I was expecting a MYles Garret type of season from what he showed us last year . But Garret has 23 sacks and Verse has F" SIX !

I would take pressures over sacks any day! We generate pressure and disrupt an offense without having to blitz. That's what makes this defense so effective. Bad defenses can get sacks (see Lions or Falcons). Pressure changes how a offense can operate.

And let's slow down comparing Verse to Garrett. I mean Myles might go down as the best pass rusher of all time. Verse will never be Myles Garrett. If he's a 10 sack guy who has a high pressure rate then he more than meets what we drafted him to be.


At the of the day the goal of the defense is to stop the other team from scoring and the Rams do that as almost good as anyone.

Verse has potential to be close to Garret , he showed it last year . SIX sacks is just not enough , for him to reach 10 he will have to sack 4 times in the next 3 game, that is very unlikely since his rate is MUCH lower than that , so far . I wouldn't say pressure is more important than sacks , no way . They are very important too , but QBs can still make good throws under pressure ( happens all the time ) . When you actually SACK him , you make them one dimensional ( can't run anymore ) and now , you need 7-8 yards more to get a first down , the drive is pretty much OVER ( most of the time ) and they will punt the ball . Now , in his defense he does have 66 pressures ( 5th in the league ) so he does apply pressure , but like I said : QBs still make good throws under pressure and Qbs can't THROW if they are sacked.

[RAMFAN71]

Verse is a pressure machine...which is very effective. That's why he gets solid PFF grades. He is def dealing with offenses trying to take him out, the way every offense had to deal with AD. I remember plenty games where AD never got home, but was always in the face and blowing up routes early. It's not a sack, but very disruptive. Would be happy to see him do that all game...may cause an INT or four!

[Ramsfan08ny]

When looking at the pressure percentage, I have to ask. Does it take into consideration of the time it takes to get pressure? If a QB is in the pocket for 4-5 seconds, scrambles, and then gets chased is it still considered pressure?

Why i ask is, I dont see a lot of "quick" pressure on QBs. Young and Verse are both fast enough to get after the QB if hes moving around, but I'd like to see more pressure right off the snap which blows the play up. I dont think we see enough of that.

[NorCal RF]

We’re stout against the run — but only when Ford is out there. And since he plays about 90% of the snaps, we’re solid against the run roughly 90% of the time.

Against the pass, though, it’s a completely different story. We’re not even average — we’re just plain bad. And that’s the thing: points per game allowed isn’t the only stat that matters.

A defense that lets the opponent drive up and down the field and can’t get off the field for long stretches keeps its own offense stuck on the bench. Even if you limit them to field goals because you’re strong in the red zone, if you’re allowing 8–9 minute drives to get there, you’re still killing your own offense’s rhythm.

I think it was against Carolina when they held the ball for something like 13–14 minutes in the third quarter. (Okay, that was largely because Ford was on a limited snap count, so they could run the ball — but still.)

As for generating pressure, yes, it matters — but not as much as actually finishing plays with sacks, and we don’t get home enough. We’re ranked #9 in total sacks with 37, while the Broncos lead the league with 58. That’s not bad (top 10), but it’s also not that impressive.

I was expecting much more from Verse and Fiske, especially Verse. The guy has six sacks. Come on , I was expecting a MYles Garret type of season from what he showed us last year . But Garret has 23 sacks and Verse has F" SIX !

JMO but I think the Verse/Garret comparison is a bit unfair. Again JMO……….

[Rampager66]

Yeah I agree on the Verse/Garrett comparison. A little premature at best!
Garrett will turn 30 in 2 weeks and is in his 9th year.
The only year he never got to 10 Sacks was his 1st when he only played 11 games. He had 10 Sacks in 10 games in year 3.
His other 7 years he has missed just 3 games and for his career has 124 Sacks in 131 games and is averaging almost 17 sacks per 17 games played. He's has 23 career Forced Fumble's, 6 FR's and 1 FR Return TD... and 18 Passes Defended!
Verse is no where near any of that... Like helly said, not even close!

[brasilrams]

We’re stout against the run — but only when Ford is out there. And since he plays about 90% of the snaps, we’re solid against the run roughly 90% of the time.

Against the pass, though, it’s a completely different story. We’re not even average — we’re just plain bad. And that’s the thing: points per game allowed isn’t the only stat that matters.

A defense that lets the opponent drive up and down the field and can’t get off the field for long stretches keeps its own offense stuck on the bench. Even if you limit them to field goals because you’re strong in the red zone, if you’re allowing 8–9 minute drives to get there, you’re still killing your own offense’s rhythm.

I think it was against Carolina when they held the ball for something like 13–14 minutes in the third quarter. (Okay, that was largely because Ford was on a limited snap count, so they could run the ball — but still.)

As for generating pressure, yes, it matters — but not as much as actually finishing plays with sacks, and we don’t get home enough. We’re ranked #9 in total sacks with 37, while the Broncos lead the league with 58. That’s not bad (top 10), but it’s also not that impressive.

I was expecting much more from Verse and Fiske, especially Verse. The guy has six sacks. Come on , I was expecting a MYles Garret type of season from what he showed us last year . But Garret has 23 sacks and Verse has F" SIX !

JMO but I think the Verse/Garret comparison is a bit unfair. Again JMO……….

Maybe it is, but that’s only because I saw a ridiculously high ceiling for him based on his play last year. I really thought he could be the next Garrett — I guess I was wrong

[brasilrams]

Yeah I agree on the Verse/Garrett comparison. A little premature at best!
Garrett will turn 30 in 2 weeks and is in his 9th year.
The only year he never got to 10 Sacks was his 1st when he only played 11 games. He had 10 Sacks in 10 games in year 3.
His other 7 years he has missed just 3 games and for his career has 124 Sacks in 131 games and is averaging almost 17 sacks per 17 games played. He's has 23 career Forced Fumble's, 6 FR's and 1 FR Return TD... and 18 Passes Defended!
Verse is no where near any of that... Like helly said, not even close!

Like I said to Norcal , I watched Verse really close last year and the potential was there , he was defensive rookie of the year . I was expecting a 15-17 sacks season but with 3 games left he has 6 . Oh well ... Still very good with the pressures but he needs to get home.

[brasilrams]

Verse has potential to be close to Garret , he showed it last year . SIX sacks is just not enough , for him to reach 10 he will have to sack 4 times in the next 3 game, that is very unlikely since his rate is MUCH lower than that , so far . I wouldn't say pressure is more important than sacks , no way . They are very important too , but QBs can still make good throws under pressure ( happens all the time ) . When you actually SACK him , you make them one dimensional ( can't run anymore ) and now , you need 7-8 yards more to get a first down , the drive is pretty much OVER ( most of the time ) and they will punt the ball . Now , in his defense he does have 66 pressures ( 5th in the league ) so he does apply pressure , but like I said : QBs still make good throws under pressure and Qbs can't THROW if they are sacked.

I'll still take the pressure rate. Sure more sacks would be nice. But offenses are changing what they do vs us to avoid the sacks. You can generate sacks via blitz. Good defenses get pressure without. Which is why we are top 3 in points allowed per.

And disagree on Garrett. They're not the same. Verse is a pro-bowl talent but Garrett is a unicorn. It's him then everyone else.

Agree to disagree. IMO , sacks are more important. And about Verse , maybe not a fair comparison like everybody is pointing out , ok . But can I get at least HALF the sacks that Garret is going to get ? At least HALF ? That is not even going to happen ..... he has 6 and there is only 3 games left.

[brasilrams]

And about Fiske ......I miss AD so much . LOL

Fiske has TWO SACKS and he grades 66 by PFF . LEt's remember we moved UP to get this guy .....

Verse rates well ( 88 ) and I am not saying he is bad of course , I am saying I had insane expectations for him and I thought he would be more of a sack machine , but so far , he is not.

[NorCal RF]

JMO but I think the Verse/Garret comparison is a bit unfair. Again JMO……….

Maybe it is, but that’s only because I saw a ridiculously high ceiling for him based on his play last year. I really thought he could be the next Garrett — I guess I was wrong

2nd year. You are not wrong if that opinion is a much larger resume. But it’s not. Again JMO your expectations for him being in his second year are probably a bit unrealistic right now……..

Yep and I will say now Garret is doubled all the time but after his rookie year teams have schemed for Verse that has allowed Young to have a really good year. Big picture for me not just one stat. Still a D 3rd best in points allowed which IMO Verse has contributed to that number immensely………..

[brasilrams]

This thread is not aging very well for the OP . LOL

[GoldenRam]

To the eye test we have not been as stout on defense in the last month plus.

We have given up an average of 30+ per game the last 4 games iirc .. hardly a "stout" defense ..

[therealheadslap75]

we are 11th vs the run in yds

we are 19th vs the pass in yds

conversely

our offense is

6th best rushing team in yds

2nd best passing team

IMHO the offense is carrying the defense to a small degree

our DBs are pretty bad vs the run and the pass, our front 7 is elite

[brasilrams]

This thread is not aging very well for the OP . LOL

It's already aged well.

We have a top 10 D. Will probably finish the year top 5.

Being a blind hater doesn't change facts

Keep throwing those stupid stats that the rams d was able to achieve when facing pathetic qbs. I prefer to watch what happens when they face real qbs and real offenses.... and what happens is that they look like shit just like they looked last game. Last 4 games they allowed more than 30 points in 3 of them. But hey they are awesome. Lol

[brasilrams]

To the eye test we have not been as stout on defense in the last month plus.

We have given up an average of 30+ per game the last 4 games iirc .. hardly a "stout" defense ..

Anyone with half a brain can see this defense sucks.

[therealheadslap75]

comparatively we are a very complete team i think the defensive backfield is limiting

[brasilrams]

Keep throwing those stupid stats that the rams d was able to achieve when facing pathetic qbs. I prefer to watch what happens when they face real qbs and real offenses.... and what happens is that they look like shit just like they looked last game. Last 4 games they allowed more than 30 points in 3 of them. But hey they are awesome. Lol

Stats matter! Feelings dont!

Outside of the Texans there are no elite defenses in this league. And even they gave up 21 today to the terrible Raiders.

Welcome to the modern NFL. Teams score! Atleast we have a team that does better than most.

Seriously now...I think the rams defense was much better when lake was there. The secondary has been pretty bad since he got hurt. And the defense overral declined their production a lot in the past month. Gotta consider the fact that they allowed 30 plus points in 3 of their last 4 games. That is not how you want to go into the playoffs. They are not the same stout defense that we saw back in September / October. The past month they have been really bad.

[brasilrams]

Anyone with half a brain can see this defense sucks.

Anyone with half a brain can understand metrics

Stop insulting yourself.

Anyone with half a brain can understand that stats can be deceiving and they are not all that matters.

[brasilrams]

Seriously now...I think the rams defense was much better when lake was there. The secondary has been pretty bad since he got hurt. And the defense overral declined their production a lot in the past month. Gotta consider the fact that they allowed 30 plus points in 3 of their last 4 games. That is not how you want to go into the playoffs. They are not the same stout defense that we saw back in September / October. The past month they have been really bad.

See....that's called nuance. I can agree they have declined. But saying a top 10 unit "sucks" is something I can't agree with.

Denver gave up 34 today. Do they suck now?

This is how today's NFL operates.

I mean they suck now, it doesn't mean they sucked for the entire season ( it is a long season) but lately they have been sucking a fat one! And I add : if they don't improve the secondary ( somehow) we are one and done in the playoffs.

[brasilrams]

I mean they suck now, it doesn't mean they sucked for the entire season ( it is a long season) but lately they have been sucking a fat one! And I add : if they don't improve the secondary ( somehow) we are one and done in the playoffs.

Yeah I don't agree with that.

All teams have weaknesses.

I agree with the fact that all teams have weaknesses . Ours might just be too much to overcome , defense is not good right now and special teams ranks DEAD LAST . Took forever for Mcvay to fire his buddy Chase and now it might be too late . St's cost us directly AT LEAST 3 out of our 4 losses .

[SoCalRam78]

Rams defense predicated on stopping run and pass rush to accommodate weak corners. Their defense can be had. It’s an okay unit. They’ve padded their “stats”’against crappy teams.

[malibu]

To the eye test we have not been as stout on defense in the last month plus.

We have given up an average of 30+ per game the last 4 games iirc .. hardly a "stout" defense ..

I said not stout in last month

[GlendoraRam]

They still don’t close out games very well, no lead is safe with this defense. Last week proved that again.

[GlendoraRam]

My concern is come playoffs, against good teams, they don’t seem to close games out.
Maybe some of that is on the offense because McVay tends to take his foot off the gas.

[SoCalRam78]

Other than Houston

Who has a better D than the Rams? I mean seriously..

Do you argue just to argue? Like every hill you’re on you must die on? We’ve gone over this w the Goff argument and I know you’re a stickler and close to vest of everything statistical. Is this take that the Rams have the second best defense in the NFL after Houston (I’m assuming by your statement)?

Rams are 7th in PPG and 15th in yards. Both those numbers have been in regression over the last month. How is a team w 15th in yards allowed the second best defense in the NFL? Or are we just going by what we believe in?